Ehrman begins his fourth chapter, “The Consequences of Sin,” by detailing horrific things humans do to each other. Then he asks “How can human beings… treat other human beings in this way?” (96). Indeed, much suffering is the result of people hurting each other and it’s no surprise that this is one of the Bible’s explanations for human suffering: “in the biblical traditions: people who sin afflict their innocent victims” (97). “This is suffering caused not by God but by people” (100).
Sin accounts for much human suffering.
Against this reason for human suffering Ehrman lodges two major complaints. I will examine one today and the other tomorrow.
Ehrman first complains about those Christians who hold that God determines every human’s every act (119-120):
While I’ve been writing this chapter, I’ve continually been thinking that it is all so obvious, and I’ve imagined my friends reading it and telling me that all these hours I’ve spent on it (there are only so many hours allotted to us in this life, after all) have been a complete waste of time. Of course people suffer because other people behave badly toward them. Where’s the revelation in that? At the same time, I know that there are lots of religious people in the world who think that everything that happens—the good and the bad—comes directly (or sometimes indirectly) from God. And on this some of the biblical authors would agree.
The view Ehrman is talking about is called determinism (or divine determinism) which is a view held by a minority of Christians. Determinism is the belief that God not only knows absolutely everything that will happen in the future, but that He so arranges the affairs of the universe that not only every deed but even every thought must happen. In fact, determinists believe that every being’s every thought and every deed is such that that being (whether man or angel) could never do other than they did. In short, determinist’s hold that you can never do otherwise. Ever.
Ehrman rightly points out that this view leads to a paradox: “If people do bad things because God ordains them to do them, why are they held responsible? If Adam and Eve were foreordained to eat the fruit, why were they punished for it?” (120).
I have three comments about this. First, Christians who hold to determinism have difficulty explaining how humans can be responsible for doing the bad things that God has efficaciously determined. Divine determinists have come up with possible solutions to this conundrum, but none of them is completely satisfying.
Second, I disagree with Ehrman’s assertion that even “some of the biblical authors would agree” that God determines our every thought and deed so that no one is ever able to do other than they do. Sadly, Ehrman quotes no verses to support his assertion and I respectfully encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ who do hold to determinism to revisit whether the Bible really does teach it. In the near future I will post a blog on why I believe that divine determinism runs contrary to Scripture, but not under my Ehrman refutation series as the question of whether anyone, even Christians, can ever do other than they do is an in-house discussion.
Third, if determinism isn’t taught in Scripture (most Christians are not determinists), then Ehrman’s complaint is irrelevant and we still have yet another of the Bible’s reasons as to why humans suffer: humans use their free will to sin against other humans.
Spot on…
You said:
“Second, I disagree with Ehrman’s assertion that even “some of the biblical authors would agree” that God determines our every thought and deed so that no one is ever able to do other than they do. Sadly, Ehrman quotes no verses to support his assertion and I respectfully encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ who do hold to determinism to revisit whether the Bible really does teach it.”
A true scholar would have then listed those passages that you said Ehrman should have made mention of. Here, let me do it for you:
Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.”
Lamentations 3:37-38 “Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?”
James 4:13-15 “Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
Psalm 139:16 “Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.”
Matthew 10:29-30 “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”
And my personal favorite:
Proverbs 16:33 “The lot is cast into the lap, but its EVERY DECISION IS FROM THE LORD.”
So Ehrman was quite right when he said:
“If people do bad things because God ordains them to do them, why are they held responsible? If Adam and Eve were foreordained to eat the fruit, why were they punished for it?”
Ignoring the passages which indicate that EVERY DECISION IS FROM THE LORD, won’t make them go away. Instead, people like you use Humpty Dumpty semantics in your attempts to make words mean whatever you want them to mean–but the Bible is clear on this issue. Yahweh DETERMINES EVERYTHING.
As I mentioned in the blog, Cathy, I’ll answer these and other passages soon.
Cathy,
Are you pointing this out because you think that God ordains evil to be propagated or are you setting up a straw man to represent the Christian view? I don’t want to steal Clay’s thunder, but on the other side of the issue are Scriptures that teach that every man is responsible for his own choices.
Hi Clay,
It was great to meet you tonight. I am really looking forward to your Intro to Apologetics class that I should be taking with you one of these summers. I just spent a few minutes on your site, and I will definitely be stopping by often to read your blog.
I really enjoyed our conversation about determinism tonight. I’m still wrestling through the implications of Romans 9 and other passages like it. I would really enjoy hearing your opinion about this:
Bart Ehrman’s quote was: “If people do bad things because God ordains them to do them, why are they held responsible? If Adam and Eve were foreordained to eat the fruit, why were they punished for it?”
This strikes me as the same question as Paul’s hypothetical question in Romans 9:19 – “You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” Is this the same question, and should we respond to Ehrman with the same response that Paul gives in v. 20-24?